tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post1697818792657807973..comments2023-08-20T04:16:39.520-05:00Comments on Deployment Engineering Archive: User Data / Log Files Best PracticesChristopher Painterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12167478740431444267noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-4696809341248940452008-11-22T22:27:00.000-06:002008-11-22T22:27:00.000-06:00Its a very good practice to separate code and data...Its a very good practice to separate code and data. I would like to see a operating system that provide separate storage for code and data; may be separate partitions. and application can only write to data partition. writing to code partition is allowed only for special applications like installer or os itself. it would also secure system from viruses writing to codes of installed applications.Nikhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15753385151041678774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-38663074228535954122008-11-22T17:15:00.000-06:002008-11-22T17:15:00.000-06:00I find that the argument that has worked best for ...I find that the argument that has worked best for this topic is "Vista will come and get you". If you explain to people that a lot of the things that "used to be fine" will trigger new and "interesting" problems in Vista because Microsoft is running a tighter ship, then that actually seems to hit home and u get a "yes, I suppose we should start preparing for that" vibe going.<BR/><BR/>Personally Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-79794768959863090642008-11-18T20:01:00.000-06:002008-11-18T20:01:00.000-06:00p.s. the app-dev's comment that "the users expect ...p.s. the app-dev's comment that "the users expect the logs to be there (in [ProgramFilesFolder]) because they've always been there before" is a legitimate point. So...<BR/><BR/>...in [ProgramFilesFolder]MyCompanyName, create a <I>shortcut</I> named <B>Logs</B> to the real Logs folder, which is located somewhere else that is UAC-compatible and ACL-safe. The shortcut gets "installed" just like any Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-1100683893627933532008-11-18T19:52:00.000-06:002008-11-18T19:52:00.000-06:00(late to the party, but...)My fellows have all res...(late to the party, but...)<BR/><BR/>My fellows have all responded by saying why logging to [ProgramFilesFolder]... is a bad idea -- and I agree -- but I wonder if we're solving the right problem.<BR/><BR/>If "Application Development" is a non-technical manager, or a relatively inexperienced programmer, whose argument is essentially "I think I saw it done this way once on Windows 98, so thereforeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-85880127783476926392008-10-17T17:14:00.000-05:002008-10-17T17:14:00.000-05:00Modifying ACLs requires administrative work and ap...Modifying ACLs requires administrative work and application level modifications to ensure that the ACLs haven't changed. This incurs a maintenance and support cost to oversee. If they have then a message has to be displayed to the user so that they can resolve the issue, which means we have to translate another string and add an acceptance test for this case. Additionally, we may have issues ShadowWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170306422408594103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-19072783272980911542008-10-17T02:58:00.000-05:002008-10-17T02:58:00.000-05:00As the other psoters already pointed out, it's not...As the other psoters already pointed out, it's not good practice to have to application store log files in the program files folder. And it's potentially dangerous to open up permissions there. <BR/><BR/>Ask the developer whether there's an important technical reason/need for ignoring the documented best practices and storing the log files under program files. "Others do it also" is not a reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-24721305988655904882008-10-16T19:28:00.000-05:002008-10-16T19:28:00.000-05:00not really too fussed either, being a repackager a...not really too fussed either, being a repackager as opposed a packager (more often than not). I found they both seem to work although in preference I like to see the data / logs elsewhere. <BR/><BR/>in saying that however I wouldn't be using [ProgramFiles]Appname\logs I would be using [Appname]logs the former is bad practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-11632568418290990982008-10-16T03:57:00.000-05:002008-10-16T03:57:00.000-05:00Definately resist, I use %temp% or on our client/s...Definately resist, I use %temp% or on our client/server app the server folder that contains the database files. I have a client who has some very strict policies and would probably change back your ACL change via a group policy.Neil Sleightholmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07489289165643020423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-13849998820484696252008-10-15T21:56:00.000-05:002008-10-15T21:56:00.000-05:00If it is application logs, potentially they should...If it is application logs, potentially they should consider writing it to the System Event Logs. This makes application administration easier, because if something goes wrong, sys admins should be going to the event viewer to see what is happening rather than crawling round to find where a text file log has been written.Matthew Rowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10941111003483992588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-1810873762842577442008-10-15T21:13:00.000-05:002008-10-15T21:13:00.000-05:00Tell them to RTFM!Tell them to RTFM!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-11214250708800315262008-10-15T13:53:00.000-05:002008-10-15T13:53:00.000-05:00Marcus nailed it: point them to the MS applicatio...Marcus nailed it: point them to the MS application development guidelines and point out the reason so many applications are having problems on Vista is because 'plenty of companies' didn't follow the guidelines.Colby Ringeisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08696301684260588101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-86451335060436457642008-10-15T07:28:00.000-05:002008-10-15T07:28:00.000-05:00First, we are not like "plenty of companies". To ...First, we are not like "plenty of companies". To be a good professional software engineer, we have to strive follow the guidelines set out by the OS provider (MS, in this case) in order to correctly integrate into the OS for full and proper support. "Plenty of companies" do software, but that doesn't mean that they didn't cut a corner somewhere.<BR/><BR/>Second, log files (as with most Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-34598397549353985022008-10-15T02:22:00.000-05:002008-10-15T02:22:00.000-05:00Tell them to read Microsoft's Windows programming ...Tell them to read Microsoft's Windows programming guidelines. It's quite an interesting read. Had every developer followed it (and I also mean the guidelines since Win2k) there would be much less UAC complaints and problems(although even then there would still be too many UAC popups IMO).<BR/>Besides in future Windows versions writing to ProgramFiles might prove more and more difficult ((un)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-24549990823310518082008-10-14T23:49:00.000-05:002008-10-14T23:49:00.000-05:00If I were in your shoes, I'd demonstrate this not-...If I were in your shoes, I'd demonstrate this not-so-implausible scenario.<BR/><BR/>On an NT6 machine, install the application and make their requested ACL changes under 'Program Files\'. Then, come along with another account in the Administrators group and "fix" the permissions on the folder under 'Program Files\'. Go ahead and run the app and see how it responds to having log files Gilbert Erik Garciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05000255264159168845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9537945.post-52397945625546793622008-10-14T23:31:00.000-05:002008-10-14T23:31:00.000-05:00I would suggest the location to be under user appl...I would suggest the location to be under user application data folder or %temp% directory.Nikhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15753385151041678774noreply@blogger.com